I have seen that somehow liberation for women is equated with plunging necklines, having promiscuous sex, and indulging in an obnoxious exhibitionism. When and how did this get perpetuated? Societies evolve and mindsets transform, and people have to move on with it. But, does our society transform uniformly? A short dress is perfectly fine in a gathering of individuals who are of the same wavelength and are used to it. Does it work well on the streets or in conservative get togethers? Does an average man on the street look with admiration when he sees a woman dressed in a revealing outfit is the question? Is the woman even looking for that attention?
When we visit a country, we do try to conform to the prevalent dress and behavior codes existing in that country. We do the same when we adhere to dress codes in offices. When we visit a temple, a gurudwara, do we not cover our heads? Does that make us weak? Is rejecting everything conventional along with plain common sense a sign of liberation and liberalization? I am all for the choice of a woman to dress up the way she wants to. But, she must understand that the society does have some rules of its own. I am also against the mentality that quickly labels itself progressive based on your attire. A progressive person shows liberation in their thoughts and actions not through their attire. Is it also important for our women to understand that?
I am sometimes dismayed with how I see the youngsters behave these days. Young girls are conscious of their sexuality sometimes even before their teenage years. Some of them dress up and behave in a manner not befitting their age. Discipline in life is there for a reason. Maybe, they don’t even realize that they might be putting themselves in harm’s way also. Social media is very good, but finally the strangers you meet there are people in the grey area till proven otherwise. I see a huge failing on the part of parents who are not able to teach moderation and common sense to their kids. Maybe they are not even around to be an anchor that their kids want.
All that the movies show does not transpire in real life but youngsters are tremendously influenced by them. Eve teasers are never good guys! Do women really fall for the bad guys? Who are bad guys? I certainly have never felt attracted to an uncivil, brash and rude man. But, this is an oft-perpetuated theory. Women don’t sing “Fevicol” and “Chikni Chameli” on the streets and are certainly not respected for it. It is not vulgar but sensual they say. Really? Do they want to take responsibility for how they are influencing men as well as lots of women who hold them as role modes. Change sets in slowly and gradually. It is important to recognize that and respect it.
Our society is undergoing a massive churning just now. There is a set of people who are very liberal, there are some moderates and some ultra conservatives. How does everyone co-exist in a harmonious way? What is the right way of doing what you want and yet not tread on others’ sensibilities? Is there any place for morals or values in our society? Is there intolerance both ways by the conservatives as well as by the liberals is a very pertinent question?
What are your views on it?
Disclaimer: My post is purely about values and behavior. When we talk of moral degradation and a general decline in our thinking, do we need to look deeper for all the reasons responsible for it? Is giving too much unmonitored freedom to kids also responsible for it? I am not talking about crime against women or in anyway implying that violence against women is linked to the way they dress.
Pic courtesy: Freedigitalphotos.net
I would say… this is a bold post. And yes, in recent times, these questions have bothering me a lot.
Many a times I feel like looking the other way seeing some dress. I mean its not that I am conservative, but the place, the people matter. You wear according to the trend but that which suits you. Many a times I feel mothers encourage their kids because they had not been allowed to wear such outfits by their parents and they want to fulfill their unfulfilled wishes.
And I just hate the portrayal in our serials or movies. Just because a person is handsome/ beautiful it does not have to mean he is a good person.
Yes it is, Bhagyashree, and it was a difficult one to write as well. I am aware of the current sentiments and the possibility of the post being misinterpreted. I am not conservative either, but sometimes what I see makes me flinch inside. You could be right about parents allowing their kids to dress up and behave in a certain way because that is stylish or hip. It is all about looks and money. Where are the values about seeing the goodness in a person. In a way, we are promoting objectifying of women. Look at our ads, serials and movies.
Some very thought provoking questions, Rachna! And I have been thinking about these too. As you rightly said, all the people in our society are not on the same page. And since we don’t live in isolation and are a part of this society our behavior (in society) is guided by the prevailing rules. Just as we behave and dress up in a particular way in a temple/gurudwara, similarly one needs to wear and behave appropriately at other places too.
A few months ago, I saw a teenage girl wearing a T-Shirt which had these words written on it, “Mount and Do Me” (in the font style of Mountain Dew, the drink) and another one wearing “Oral Me” (similar to Oral-B)… Why is my question? I am not conservative but I believe there is a time and place for everything!
Thank you Shilpa for understanding the essence of the post. When we wish to see a change in the society, we need to first understand how society functions. Then only can we bring about the required change. Do mindsets change by saying change them? It requires persistent effort.
You have echoed my thoughts Rachna. And Shilpa has put it so aptly. As much as we like to say that women should not be harassed even if they walk naked, we know that we do not live in an ideal world. Appropriate dressing makes sense in a society like ours, that is evolving.
Exactly Alka! Appropriate dressing is important. And, it is distasteful as well. We need to be aware of our environment and accordingly adapt is all I am saying. Somehow, it has been drilled into kids that showing kids is cool and happening. Some girls don’t even know how to sit properly when they wear short dresses. It is equally distasteful to see boys with very low jeans with their underwear on display or disgusting lines written on their Tees :(.
U set ur readers thinking. True that appropriate and modest outfits are important than the so-called up-todate modern ones.
A thought provoking post! Keep it going…
Welcome to my blog, Vaishnavi. I am happy that the questions got you thinking?
my views , well to be frank I think we have GONE BACKWARDS, Although some might argue that in olden times women were slaves and kept this bad or what not , BUT what is happening is now is far worse.
I was shocked a couple of weeks back, My sis in USA , her kids wanted to come to india to meet the grandparents, She called me up saying , she does not want to as india is not SAFE. I was shocked because to me it is like saying I cant go HOME as it is not safe. HOW can that be possilbe , unsafe in one’s OWN home ..
On the other hand some of us have taken things for granted , westernisation has made it worse, I keep getting calls from both male and female friends from india saying , oh its easy , on friday nights you can go out and be physical with anyone , its ok, only one drink to offer and a girl will be urs or the guy will be urs .. IT IS NOT that way ..
There are a lot of factors that have brought all these things around, and I think one of the biggest things is , putting everything in context of MEN-WOMEN, I have read so many blogs from people and MAJORITY try to put the blame on gender basis.. which does not help either.
you can call me a hypocrite or what not but My sister and if I had a daughter They will KNOW how to behave .. and Beleive me THE males looking at them or even thinking of something wrong will also KNOW how to behave with them ..
I just read SG’s comment above the slogans, and must say in november a group of kids arrived from Mumbai to uk on some student thing , dont know what, I was on duty , the Girls in the group had Tee’s and BIG slogans on similar pattern, I cant even WRITE what was written on them.. and this is true THEY were Asked to CHANGE the Tee’s as there were Kids around and its an arrestable offence
Bikram’s
I completely agree Bikram. When we look at it from the context of a gender issue then other pertinent factors are thrown out of the window. In one generation, some people have moved way ahead while one segment is still lurking in the dark. Some of the stuff that youngsters do is truly distasteful. I completely agree that we have to instil the right values in our sons and daughters.
Right question. Wrong timing. These kind of questions at this point are going to be misinterpreted as blaming victims for the violence against them.
But yes – the world developed culture and discipline as they emerged from savagery to civilization. Humans went on developing them till they became burdensome hampering individual freedom. Then as a reaction to the oppression,movement started in the reverse direction towards greater individual freedom. Now seems like this is going too far. It would be interesting to see how much towards initial savagery mankind descends before counter revolutionary tendencies set in.
Thank you for bringing it up, TF! No, my intention is in no way linking attire to crime. My post only focuses on decline of values in society, and I am trying to look at the reasons for it. It really has nothing to do with violence against women. I hope that people understand it very clearly.
We are quick in denouncing even the basic values like decency and common sense in the name of liberation. I think that our younger generation is really falling prey to wrong role models which will lead to social anarchy. Parents are in a way also to blame for this.
Finally the jinx is broken and can read your post! Agree with what you say, Rachna! We live in multiple India’s where one end is as previleged as any where else in the developed world and other is extreme end of poverty with so much differences in thinking, dress, food, lifestyle etc. In short I agree ‘Be a Roman when you are in Rome’. Will see if other posts have become visible now:)
Glad to see you here, Rahul :). Yes, we have many different mindsets coexisting these days in India. It is important to recognize that and where they stem from if we wish to bring about a constructive change.
hmmm…..dressing in an inappropriate way is the surest way to get misinterpreted. Though that does not justify any crime against women. But I am also against putting oneself in unnecessary risk in the name of ‘woman liberalisation’. As it is this phrase has been misinterpreted in every way possible.
About pictures and item songs influencing minds, I would say they are catering to demand. It is us who push such movies into ‘100 crore clubs’ and create demand for such stuff. When a ‘Saraansh’ is made, there are no takers. Same producers go for ‘Jism’ and are showered with money. I was dumbstruck When I read in newspapers how people made a beeline for getting their kids’ picture clicked with Sunny Leone. Insane!
This insanity is getting onto me too, Meenakshi! I think a dress is not inappropriate, it is a situation or setting that is. It is a vicious cycle when it comes to objectizing women and vulgar songs. Are they a reflection of the society’s mindsets or is the society getting wrongly influenced by them. I mean Sunny Leone on Bigg Boss was alarming. Suddenly kids were looking her up and being exposed to inappropriate images and content. Are these our role models these days?
Hi Rachna,
Basically, we are dealing with morals, ideals and ethics. Parents can only show their children the path, whether to walk on it or not, is upto the child. If the child has a sufficient internal self-control, no amount of environmental changes would effect any behavioral impacts on the child. This is something I have myself experienced when I was in college.
Regards
Jay
My Blog | My FB Page
I agree Jay. It is parents who play a major role in instilling values in their children and not always by preaching but by their behavior. We cannot, however, ignore the influence of media — print and television, movies and also internet these days. To keep your head above water will require solid foundation.
Rachna this is a brilliant post,i agree wholeheartedly with you.Today the topmost desire in young minds is to be seen as hep n happening & they will fight with their parents if they do not condone their behavior.When they dress in titillating dresses are they being liberal or just pandering to the baser instincts of onlookers?To me it appears that they are enslaving themselves & losing out on decency & dignity.Mankind started wearing clothes to cover up their bodies but today this is changing.
Thank you Indu for connecting with the post. That is the point I wanted to convey about the current generation.
I was in US for a short period of time. Before embarking on the journey to the country, I had advised both my kids not to stare at any skimpy clad people there or giggle at them just in case, though I know they have better sense than me. They behaved, but when we got back from there with pictures of our friends who wore normal dress according to their society, we had people here passing lewd comments on shortness of their dress, exposure of skin etc. These were the dresses that did not attract a second glimpse in their country and was accepted very well. What is a titillating dress? I don’t think even nudity is titillating, as it is known among the digambhars. Even when I play games online like triviador with real people, every 3rd Indian guy(only Indian) wants to know my email ID, age etc. This is so irritating. I think girls should have full freedom to dress as they want. Just because we have a society where perverts outnumber good men, we should not force the girls to change. As you say, a short dress will not be an issue if one get used to it, our society needs to get used to it. As The Fool says, this is a wrong time for this wonderful post. At the moment even I am not thinking straight, my comment being a proof of it 😉
Farida, I respect your feelings. I knew that the post may be misinterpreted. But like I said to TF, I am talking about a disconnect between our younger generation and the society and the general decline in values. The choice of wrong role models is also an issue. About your point of dress being immaterial. In an ideal world and an ideal situation, that is true. But, we do not live in an ideal world. Till that time, understanding the society can help us spur it to change. Besides, chasing Western norms have their own disadvantages. You and I are aware that abuse of women, rape and other crimes in their societies are also very high. I was shocked to read that Sweden or Norway that are among the best places to live in the world have the worst crime rates against women. Nowhere have I said that the girl must be made to change. I am talking about liberty and why is it equated with dressing? Why are we not teaching our kids the virtues of good behavior or being a good citizen? Who are our role models today? The Chikni Chamelis or Sheelas? Where are we heading — a materialistic and moralistic doom both for our boys and girls?
We must come out of being an ostrich .Fact is that clothes do matter and I won’t break it up into small or big city attitude .We are the same every where,
KUAWA HAR DESH MEIN KAALAHI HITA HAI.
Did someone scream when brand ” FCUK” was introduced?
Sometimes the changes happening are extremely unpalatable. It seems like there is a race to discard the good and the right. Everything that we do conveys a certain message or triggers a certain response. We need to get to the bottom of this before any change can be brought about.
I would hate to say it here.I saw a girl inher early twenties wearing a T written…Pressing is soothing.
Beat that ,if you can
Makes me feel sick :(.
Rachna,
You have called spade a spade. Being liberal or forward does not depend upon way one dresses but the way one behaves and give his or her best to the society. One, be male or female, must dress as per occasion and keeping in mind the general trends in the area. One should understand that it does not go well to give vulgar display like bending in low waist jeans while wearing short top. Of course at the same time this does not give right to anyone to pass lewd comments or misbehave with any person dressed such. I entirely agree with you on need of parental guidance in social networking as well as viewing movies till they are mature to understand what is what. Hope this is read by all, specially youngsters and taken in right spirit.
Take care
Thank you Jack! No one has a right to molest anyone else period! But, I am not even linking crime to dressing. I am talking about this whole attitude in today’s generation that has forgotten what appropriateness is. I would want to see how many of them can get through job interviews or Presentations dressed casually. They will comply there but ask them to be a bit more in tune with their surroundings and they will go ballistic.
Loved this post for its forthrightness and honesty. This is one point I have always tried to convey. being liberated does not mean wearing skimpy or provocative clothes. A fully draped woman can be the most liberal of people and vice versa.
I agree with Rahul about the divide being too wide to be bridged between the well to do and the poor. The concerns, the problems and demands are so diverse that there can be no meeting ground for them. I agree about following some decency in dresses and age/place appropriate dressing too. Dressing little girls like models in off-shoulder and backless dresses and letting them play in the playground is inviting trouble. I might be branded a dinosaur for saying this. But I feel that it is better to be safe than sorry.
You just gave me an idea for a post, Rachna. Thank you 🙂
Thank you Zephyr! I completely agree with what you say. Personally, I am a very liberal person as well. But, I know that there is a time and place for everything. We must be conscious of our surroundings and also about what our behavior conveys to others.
Will look forward to reading your post :).
Exactly my thoughts. Will you believe me if I mentioned that I had thought of a similar post. Well, I couldn’t have been as articulate as you. On hindsight, I’m glad that I didn’t write that post.
I agree when Zephyr says that there should be some decency while dressing up. Today’s so called ‘confidence’ and liberal thoughts have been mistaken for skimpy clothes and free sex. Perhaps that’s what is portrayed by the media. A fully covered woman might be the most radical in her thoughts and actions. Crude dressing sense and free sex cannot be understood as radical and modern in thoughts.
Quite a well-articulated post and very spot-on.
Thanks.
Joy always,
Susan
You are just too generous Susan! Thank you for connecting with the post. I know, it has the potential for being misread. But, I always stand by the fact that is better to be prudent than foolish. In every generation including ours, we wish to rebel against the norms of the society as they seem outdated to us. I have lived alone, studied alone, traveled alone at odd hours and hold extremely liberal views, but I have always been conscious about decency. I don’t understand how smoking, getting drunk, indulging in indecent behavior has become equated with being liberal so much so that today’s generation finds it so hard to not go that way. Why are we becoming so moralless and materialistic? Vulgarity and crudity is never welcome. But alas! Thanks again for your comment.
I agree with what Rahul says. Be Roman in Rome. I wish they show heroes as better stuff than eve teasers in the movies.
True Latha! I recently watched Makkhi, and the stuff around the girl and the boy was so distasteful. Which girl in her right mind keeps a guy dangling and enjoys that kind of attention?
As I was reading this post, I felt there was going to be some ‘Rachna-bashing’ in the comments, though I knew what you were trying to say. Like The Fool has noted, right post, wrong timing. The post can be misinterpreted. But as I proceeded to the comments, I realized that everyone, like me, agrees with what you have written. When in Rome, you have to do as the Romans do. That said, the freedom of a woman to wear what she likes is not to be curbed. It is up to her to decide the kind of attention she wants to draw. In a gathering where jaws don’t drop at the show of some skin, it is perfectly okay to dress so. On a crowded local bus or train? It’s her call. Children are being conditioned by movies and ads and even some pretentious parents that looks are everything. As far as moral degradation is concerned, it’s not the attire that bothers me. It’s the attitude of both men and women.
I do agree with what you say, DC. I know that the post can easily be misconstrued. I maintain that my intention is not at all to link any sort of violence to attire. Violence is never justified period! But, I have to say that the society is getting more perverted and dangerous as compared to the times when I was in my teens. We really need to understand the significance of appropriate behavior and also that society is not uniform. A girl has every right to dress the way she likes. I stand by it. But, both girls and boys should be more careful of how they dress as per the situation and occasion. It is plain common sense and not backwardness. Don’t equate liberty to vulgarity and discarding morals is all I say. I was prepared for quite a few brickbats for this post!
When I was in UK, I wore skirts to office. No one stared. Everyone there wore a similar attire. Once I was back in India, I conviently moved back into my kurta and salwars. I actually never thought about wearing skirts in here, because honestly I was not comfortable with the kind of looks I got, when I walked from my house to the bus stop. I dont know what it is, it is our culture or is it because people are not used to seeing a little bit of skin? and again I am not talking about short skirts, but about knee length skirts. But it has been like this always. We talk about progressive soceity, and educated people, but even in office, men, my collegaues stop and glare if we they spot a girl in a skirt in the office. I dont know if you would agree or even if it is relative to the post, but I find our society to be hypocritical. We talk about our culture, ethics and values, but we still have red light areas in every city, and yes
they are working full on!
But ofcourse, I agree, those kinds of songs portray women in a different way, so really who should we blame, I dont know. Also, I agree every place defines an attire, one cannot way a short skirt or hot pants to the temple or a church.
Yes Jenny because it is a part of their culture. In India, most people are still not used to it except those who have been exposed to either these cultures or liberated environments. It was common for us to wear a dupatta or sit decently when wearing a shorter dress. Besides all this Indians love to stare. The other day, I visited a coffee shop in a mall in Mumbai. I saw a youngster there who was wearing a top that was skimpy with really short shorts. Every one was staring at her. Now, it is her choice to wear what she wants. But, can she really avoid the attention she gets? We can talk all we want about progressive societies, but for a culture like ours, it is going to take a lot more time for the man on the street to be sensitized. And, it is important, that we are aware of this discrepancy. Besides, due to the conditioning of an average male, a certain attire conveys a certain message to them. These are just facts no matter how much we would want them to change.
A very important and thought provoking post Rachna. While it can easily be misinterpreted, I know where you are coming from. Yes, there is always a place and the kind of people around you that decide the dress code. I can dress in a skirt and at the same time I am required to wear a salwar kameez or saree depending upon where I am going. So I think that moral sense is important to be instilled in our youngsters. It is not at all about being conservative.
Thank you Jas! You have said it aptly. It is not that one is being conservation if one believes in certain values or morals.
I get exactly what you meant, Rachna. Super post. It is such a sad situation. In theory everyone wants to be holier than thou but when it comes right down to showing compassion and being decent, it is a different story.
I remember, back in college, girls who wore jeans were considered “chaalu”. In fact, our college principal actually put up a notice related to dress code – which insisted that all the girls wearing short tops should attach a piece of cloth or a frill (how thoughtful to give suggestions) to lengthen the garment so as to be knee length. Sarees were allowed. So a couple of third-year students wore sarees in protest. Guess what? They wore halter necked backless blouses with hipster chiffon sarees that were literally bare-all. After a month of a messy situation, the notice was taken off.
Yet – individuals who have dirty minds will never change. There was a time we thought only the late thirties-early forties guys acted smart during bus travel because most of them were lecherous types. There seems no telling any more.
The thing is, revealing clothes do attract attention. So, in a conservative society, dressing in a revealing way is not the ideal way to rebel. It is quite like being fully dressed at a nudist’s camp.
If only people would focus on living a decent life and contributing to their community in a positive way. God knows we have higher things to worry about, as we quickly use up the world’s resources. I can dream. And practice, of course. And it is reassuring to know that there are lots of good and caring people too.
Thank you Vidya for connecting with the essence of the post. I guess these kind of rules are being implemented because clearly students are not keeping the decorum of the place in mind. Low slung jeans and tank tops — are they really meant for places of work, worship or study? Why can’t we keep them for outings or parties with like-minded people?
The point is in being aware that skin-showing garments will attract attention whether we like it or not. So, it is better to understand that and avoid unnecessary glaring. Of course, one has the right to dress up the way they wish to but within the parameters of the rules prevailing in the society. Like you pointed out, rebelling and not understanding these may unfortunately land someone in trouble. Instead the emphasis must be on instilling the right values in our children. Liberation does not come in wearing revealing clothes. Liberation comes with liberated thinking and deeds. I share your dream too. Living a decent life and contributing to our community is very important.
Pertinent and well written post, though some might say the timing is off 😛 hehe
I see your points. IMHO, morals are not about culture and tradition and conservatism, but about making sensible choices that work for you and don’t harm or hurt anyone (including yourself). I wrote a post on this too http://e-pinion.blogspot.in/2012/11/morality-is-it-over-hyped.html
I always say that too much of anything is never good, because then people let things get to their heads and indulge in excesses that might harm. I certainly don’t support the moral policing that our society indulges in, but I don’t support the idea of people going overboard in the name of fashion or style either. Attire should be tasteful and add to one’s persona, not take away from it.
And I definitely believe that no one has the right to harass or molest a person regardless of what he or she is wearing. That is an illegal offense.
Well written 🙂
I know about the timing bit :P. Absolutely agree Ash that sensible choices that work for you and don’t harm anyone are important. But, even that is looked down upon. Many youngsters will call you cowardly or backward if you do not go with the flow. Simple decency like behavior with adults or in different contexts are just getting thrown to the winds. It is like the impolite or the immoral is in. I don’t support moral policing either. But, I am not about to venture in public transport in a swim suit though I wear it while swimming. Staying practical and balanced is equally important. And in the name of fashion, vulgarity is still just that.
Absolutely agree about crime. No one has a right of violence over anyone else whether at home or outside, period! We are equally aware that crime has nothing to do with attire.
Excellent post Rachna !Dressing appropriately and acoording to the place and people is very important.
Actually youngsters are gslloping fast, whereas our society is not prepared, our values are different from the west.
Exactly my point! Thank you for connecting, Renu!
I’m not sure if I agree to every point that you are making here, but I do agree that the media and movies are definitely partially to blame for the warped views that society holds nowadays!
You have aright to your view, and I have no problems with it. Yes, media is a part of the problem certainly.
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I was thinking more about this topic and came to re-read your post! I believe my earlier comment was more a knee-jerk reaction based on what is happening nowadays. I now agree with your thoughts. We do dress according to an unwritten code. At my in-laws, I try to dress modestly, for their sentiments. If I were to visit a conservative Muslim country, I would try and find out what would hurt their sentiments and dress accordingly. It has nothing to do with liberalism; it is just about being empathetic to others.
I am more concerned about teenagers’ and older kids’ attitudes. Kids want to project themselves as being cool, but end up harming themselves by taking pictures of themselves drunk etc and posting them on Facebook. They have no idea how much harm they are causing themselves in the future.
Thanks for this insightful post.
Lovely post Rachna! And I completely second Roshni’s thoughts here. There are unwritten rules – not simply to appear cool or act smart and modern but only to be conscious of others. We’re after all a society.
I understand Roshni! All of us are very angry with what has happened. And, I know that some might misinterpret my post as saying that I am blaming attire for crime. Painstakingly in every comment, I’ve said that a woman never asks for a crime to be committed. And that is an indisputable fact. I am merely talking about how common sense is being abandoned by youngsters today. Everything goes in the guise of being modern. Drinking, smoking, behavior, like you pointed you dressing in unbecoming attire what is all this? If this is liberation then I’d rather my kids stay unliberated. Do you see how each of us automatically respects the emotions of elders or change in environments. Did our parents drill it in us? No! It was our values that makes us do this. And, this is liberated thinking. The examples you gave are exactly what I had in mind. Is there anything wrong or backward in doing that?
@Deepa Thank you, Deepa! So true about the unwritten rules. It is good to be tuned in and to not tread on others’ feelings and sensibilities. I am dismayed that so many have misinterpreted the post in terms of linking attire to crime. Whereas, I was merely talking about loss of morality and inappropriate behavior in our younger generation. We have to be aware of the society we live in and it is not an ideal world. It also does not run as per our diktats. I see a lot of intolerance both from the liberals and the ultra conservatives.
It is ironic that at the bottom of this post a mature dating advertisement sports a buxom woman who is purportedly just three miles away and waiting for a liaison….the media pump us full of this stuff so that it seeps, like sewge , into our unconscious and becomes second nature. If we could switch off the media, and talk to each other once again; if women in my country would spend the time with their children instead of every hour of the day earning huge salaries; if time was seen as the diamond resource it is, and superior by far to money: then, perhaps, we might have a chance for our young people.
You have beautifully brought out the point about subconscious imbibing of messages. Completely agree that values and spending time with children is much more important than chasing money. Media overkill is also taking a toll.
i go with renu and u on this subj rachna ji..powerful post as usual boss…happy new year:)
Thank you Ramesh. Wish you the same.
RP, this post makes me quite thrilled…because india is a mixed bag, though I agree your point here…that today’s girls want to believe or project that they are sex objects!..they dress they behave …they wear horrible slogans t-shirts…but then …. its not always true… I have my niece ..she is just 22 yr old she was going for a farm house party …car broke down on the way…she called few friends..and one of his childhood friend came with his mother…this women gave my niece 20 mins lecture….but then ..she was dressed as per the venue..she never thought her car would get broke… :(…damn, for heaven sake…in india …If you wearing a dress..knee length…or I should say if you are weraing anything and looking nice ….you will still have few akward moments… when you even get out of of yr posh south delhi house (…Its India.!
But to your point…I think parents should keep a check on their kids ( boys & girls both)..if boys dont like it girls will not do it..I totally believe that every girl even in teens is crazy on admireres …she want guys to like, love lust her but not rape her… so I think Kids of all age should be taught appropriately… taught to respect themselves, accept the way they are, do what they like and so on!…every parent & kid should work on thier own list :)..
And there my personal story to it:
I am punju married in a marwari family so when I got married the only thing appropriate to wear was saree, to behave appropriate you shouldnt argue rather dont put your POV… so for me nothing was appropriate…Indian’s though they want Branded bags, clothes, cars, …big bunglows but all want their girls to be the docile types…I was not comfortable …I wanted to dress as per me …because I was 27.and I disagree that their’s no one better to tell me that what to wear!…so, for me initially it was like a hard one !! because few though it was not appropriate so everyone has thier own thoughts …so i simply say dont do yourself but its me who wants to do it and I will because its not harming you but its definately harming me…my self esteem..because you simply saying that what you want to do is not good, i dont agree I dont show faith in you!…
I totally agree that Indian tv & filming and songs are the worst influencers…they should improve and probably make better media that family rcan watch together !!!.
Thank you Vandana! What happened to your niece was wrong. Like you said, she dressed appropriately for a party. It helps to wear wraps or stoles while traveling. Like you pointed out, once you get out of your car, you will suffer the glares. But imagine traveling in public transport. Considering the prevalent mentality, you will encounter dirty glances etc. Yes, parents must guide their kids more. When I was growing up, we never discussed these topics at home. Masturbation, sex, dating were all taboo, so I wonder what mentality kids people in my generation picked up and from where.
I would be terribly miffed too if someone wanted me to dress in a particular way like wear saris or put pallu on head. I am not condoning that mentality. Have you seen the statements coming out of politicians and men about women. Derogatory! Imagine they are in positions of power and some of them educated. It makes me shudder to think how bad is a mentality of a common man on the streets. Women have moved on and progressed very quickly but men are taking their time in catching up. Some of them can’t stomach it. In this scenario, it is better to be aware and culturally sensitive. Heck, I am a liberal myself but some of the stuff that teens do these days puts me off completely. Can you imagine how revolting it must be for a conservative person? Like I said, society is composed of many segments and just by saying or hoping that mindsets change, they don’t change. The process is slow. Instead of rebelling against it, approach it with some practicality. Let’s teach our girls and boys to be careful and to be aware.
And, again progress or liberation has nothing to do with attire. It is time we focused on important values and not money and looks.
conforming to the prevailing norms (of various strata of the society) is important only from the point of view of safety of women. it is virtually impossible to change the mindset of everyone, so, better be careful. and i know how youngsters behave these days. although, i believe one should lead a life he/she wants to but unfortunately, we don’t have the right environment for that.
Exactly Deb! It is virtually impossible to push someone to change their mindset, and it takes a long time. For some men, it is particularly hard to stomach the independence and freedom of women. It is a fundamental right to have the freedom to dress and live the way we want. But, as you pointed out, we don’t have the environment for that. How many of our fundamental rights are being fulfilled anyway? Instead of rebelling, let us focus on understanding the situation and expedite mindset change keeping in mind the prevailing environment and accordingly adapting ourselves. We have to teach our kids to stay safe. Parents do impose deadlines, don’t they?
I don’t think that the way a person dresses is an indication of how moral they are. Just because someone wears a sari doesn’t mean they are more moral than someone in shorts and a singlet. Morality has to do with intentions, decisions and actions that are “good” or “bad”. The way I personally see the “good” and “bad” is whether it physically and intentionally hurts someone. If someone’s sentiments are hurt, that doesn’t make a person immoral {except of course, when we live in politically correct societies}. Basically, if someone is wearing shorts and a singlet but is living an honest life and hasn’t deliberately hurt another person or animal, what is it that makes them immoral? On the other hand a person who has covered up all their life could be deliberately hurting people but just because they cover up, one cannot automatically assume them to be moral.
The same goes with sexual behaviour. If two people are at an age where they can consent to have sex, who is society to judge? On the other hand, a rapist would definitely be considered immoral because on of the two individuals is not consenting.
I don’t know if I’m making much sense but I guess in a nutshell, I am trying to say that we should judge a person’s morality based on a few things like this. Rather, it’s important for us to understand their behaviour and what they do as human beings.
In terms of values, I think the one important value that all parents need to teach their children is respect. That’s the only way women can wear what they want without others thinking it is an open invitation to touch.
I do agree with you though that I have never understood the whole bad-boy thing! Give me a nice guy any day!
I agree with you, an attire has nothing to do with morality. But in the minds of a warped person, a certain morality is assigned to it. In an ideal situation, a girl should have the right to live and dress and move about as she likes. But, is this the reality? How many of us can travel alone late at night and take public transport? In the given situation, do we not take steps to safeguard our wellbeing? Mindsets are sadly regressive. Suddenly men are confronted with women who are independent and aware of their rights. But, they are saddled with an old mindset. That mindset will only change very slowly. We have to accept that social change is a slow process and not everyone wishes to change. In this situation, is it better to put one in the harm’s way or to take steps to stay safe.
I agree that under no circumstances should a woman be touched because she is dressing up in a particular way. But sexual crimes on women happen irrespective of attire. They happen on a large scale in Western countries where dress is not an issue at all. Crime against women is a very complex issue. And, nowhere am I implying that girls invite crime by dressing in a certain way. I am just saying that sadly the man on the streets does not look at you with admiration when he sees you dressed in a certain way. Also, wearing vulgar outfits is not a sign of liberation. Strangely the only values kids understand are of money and looks.
Hey and welcome to my blog and thank you so much for your insightful comment.
Food for thought! An important point of view!
Thank you Deepak!
I understand your perspective, Rachna. I don’t mind others wearing skimpy clothes. It’s their choice and their life.
Yes, Giri me too! Thank you for understanding. But, if my son paraded in torn jeans with his underwear visible, I will give him a piece of my mind. The same will happen if he comes home stone drunk. Certain behavior is just repulsive and certainly not liberal.
Hi Rachna
When people go to office they respect the dress code and stick to it rt?Similarly every place has some respect associated with it and the dressing should be in accordance is what I feel. In fact people who are actually liberal and broad minded are quite conscious about the way they dress and do in a manner that makes neither themselves nor others uncomfortable. It is those confused souls who map things like way of dressing to being liberal who go overboard at times. One can dress the way one likes, but in a mature way. Lovely post Rachna.
And,you make a very valid point, Jaish! Those who think liberally are often secular and more understanding than others in respecting others’ wishes. Those who tread upon others and force their views are basically pseudo-liberals. Thanks so much for connecting with the post.
Great dialog here, and I see that all that I wanted to say has already been covered between your post and the comments. Perhaps the entire dynamics of feminism and gender roles needs to be reexamined. My grandmother, a homemaker, self educated (she wasn’t sent to school after her teens), widowed at a relatively young age, religious and deeply traditional came across to me as more modern than many so-called liberated women. She wore white, took God’s name at every turn and cooked nonvegetarian food for her grandchildren with a kerchief clasped to her nose. She ensured that both her daughters got the same education as her sons, refused to be dependent on her sons, and traveled alone in her 70’s across Europe in her white saree, rigid habits and no English. I look at my educated and liberated women friends who continue to suffer in relationships, be second-bested for family decisions, and mollycoddle their sons while they cluck cluck over when their daughters will go to their true homes, and I wonder how this happened.
Liberation is being able to value yourself and others as creatures of the same spirit.
Thank you Subhorup for sharing about your grandma. The questions that you’ve raised bout today’s liberal women bother me as well. That’s a great way of looking at liberation.
Every generation thinks the same way about the next, from the time of Plato/Socrates, the same words have been used. So my conclusion is, the older generation is NOT qualified in any way to make judgments about actions of the next generation. 🙂
I want to quote from your post and add my views. But since I cannot copy the lines, I am giving that up 🙂
You are right about that. Every generation does think that the next one has declining morals. I don’t know about the judgement part, but I definitely see merit in understanding culture and also wishes of the elders because that tells us whether our change is finding real acceptance in society. Now, I am not talking about horrible stuff like not letting women venture out of the house, freedom to work or dress etc. All I am saying is that liberation is more in thoughts and deeds and not in external things like clothes and habits. Like Subhorup points out, what makes these same “liberal” women tolerate abuse and stick around with sham marriages. I wish we could inculcate that in our girls and boys that our self respect cannot be compromised. My dad told me that!
Sorry about that copy-paste thing. I had to disable it because some of my stuff was lifted earlier :(.
Hi Rachna – to rape someone because of what she is wearing is a pretty shabby excuse and there are millions of cases that prove that rape is not dependant upon that factor.
As a middle aged woman I do sometimes look with horror at some peoples choice of suitable attire – however I firmly believe that anybody (male or female) should be able to wear whatever they choose to without fear of being verbally or physically abused. Common sense should dictate certain standards, but sadly it doesn’t.
Here in London throughout the summer I see men taking off their shirts and walking bare chested down the street, never once have I been tempted to molest any of them, although I can’t pretend that I haven’t peeked at some with admiration. The vast majority I just want to scream – please cover up you look disgusting.
Yes Jane. I could not agree with you more. No one should have a right to touch us just because they think that we are asking for it. I was just lamenting about the craziness that links liberation to attire while no one gives a damn about liberated thoughts and deeds.
My mom tells me always that no matter how I dress up every other day, on the Sunday it has to be very very modest! Yes there is a code of conduct that needs to be followed and as you said that is a must considering the degradation of human values in today’s times!
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Thank you!
Hey Rinzu, I read your blog regularly. I may not comment often, but I admire the depth and sensitivity of your emotions! It is important for us to recognize that no matter what we may think, how we dress conveys messages to people based on their values and upbringing. We have to keep their sensibilities in mind too. Thank you for your comment.
I have never commented on a blog ever though I have been a frequent lurker around. I just have one question – What is the definition of DECENT? A sari? A salwar Kameez? Jeans? What length of skirt is appropriate? What length of shorts is decent and at what length are they defined as really short? and who gets to define these limits of decency – (By far its always the onlooker which judges if the object of their stare is wearing DECENt clothes or not)?
Why is it a group of guys on the street in their tees and shorts do not attract attention and girls wearing and equally non descript long baggy shorts will be started at anyways?
This code of conduct that we talk of is no written word. Each has its own interpretation. Can you judge someone for that ? And clothes or the lack of it should or rather CAN never be the criteria how a human looks at another.
Hey Newbie, So happy to have you comment. Thank you for reading my blog. I agree that my parameter of decent will be different from yours. I don’t like someone staring lewdly at my bare feet or cleavage. I just don’t want that kind of attention from the man on the street. In a gathering of my kind of people, I don’t mind wearing skimpier outfits or showing cleavage. I believe that no matter what we might want, there are different people of different mindsets who react in their own way. And in a society, we do not live in isolation. We have to consider everyone. Besides, my post was about equating flashy or revealing clothes and behavior like drinking or smoking with liberal thinking, which is wrong. Liberal thinking is never dictated by the way we dress but by our thoughts and deeds.